From fast paced high flying corporate, to new mum then nine weeks later in a psychiatric ward. Faced with a choice to go back to her old life of ‘rise and grind’, Chelsea Pottenger chose to learn and grow and change her life for the better.
She founded EQ Minds which has a goal to empower people to take care of their own mental health – and have trained over ONE MILLION Australians and given them the tools to look after their mental well being.
There’s lots to love about this episode and we hope that after listening to this, you might just love yourself a little more.
Episode Summary
Chelsea opens up about being hospitalised nine weeks after giving birth to her daughter Clara in 2015, the decision she made in that hospital bed to change her life, and the founding of EQ Minds in 2016. She unpacks the three reasons high performers burn out, why mini retirements every six weeks are an under used tool for longevity, a four part framework for saying no with kindness, the morning routine that sets up your whole day, and the science of sleep for sustainable high performance.
Key Takeaways
The three reasons high performers burn out are a lack of focus on themselves, poor boundaries, and constant beast mode.
Book mini retirements every six weeks. The anticipation alone gives you a natural serotonin release that compounds across the year.
A four part framework for saying no with kindness protects your time without damaging the relationship or your career.
The first eight minutes of your day set the tone. Stay off your phone. Start with gratitude. Brush your teeth with the opposite hand. Smash a glass of water before coffee.
Sleep is the elixir of life. Screens off 30 minutes before bed. No caffeine after 2pm. Cap alcohol at one drink to protect deep REM sleep.
About Chelsea Pottenger
Chelsea Pottenger is the founder of EQ Minds and the author of The Mindful High Performer. After being hospitalised for postnatal depression in 2015, she returned to university to study psychology and founded EQ Minds in 2016 with the mission to empower and educate people to take care of their mental health. EQ Minds has trained over one million Australians and works with some of the biggest brands in the country.
Full Interview Transcript
Blake: Hey Chelsea Pottenger, welcome to The Do Landers. Thanks for joining us. How are you?
Chelsea Pottenger: I’m fantastic, Blake and Nik. Thanks for having me on the show today.
Blake: We always love to start by asking our guests this. It is a really broad question. Who are you and what do you do?
Chelsea Pottenger: Probably the best place to start is my story and how I ended up as the founder of EQ Minds. I was working in a corporate high flying job like a lot of people out there. I was in a cycle of 12 hour days, rise and grind, alcohol after work, triple shot lattes, pounding the pavement to exercise. Everything was really fast paced.
Then in 2015, after trying for six years, I gave birth to our daughter Clara and was so elated. Nine weeks later I was in a psych ward fighting for my life with postnatal depression. When I was lying in that hospital I was given a choice. I could go back to the same lifestyle that led to my mental illness, or I could learn and grow from this gift. I decided to move out of Sydney to a small town on the South Coast of New South Wales. I went back to university to study psychology because I did not want anyone else to end up in the same place that I had. Then I founded EQ Minds in 2016 with the mission to empower and educate people to take care of their mental health.
To date Blake and Nik, we are very proud to say we have trained one million Australians and given them the tools to look after their mental wellbeing.
It has been a wild journey. We have been flat out since we launched the company and it has been so joyful because we train the biggest brands as well as amazing small businesses. It makes that time of postnatal depression something I now look back on with a sense of gratefulness. Without that adversity I would never be here, in this job, having this impact. I feel grateful in a weird way that it happened to me.
Blake: We will dig into it further. On The Do Landers we have this Health Quest. What we are trying to do is live forever. Well, we are trying to live. I am 93 and Nik is 87 so we are doing okay. Our audience are mostly 35 to 55 with families and busy careers. When you think about COVID, we were trapped in our homes for months on end. Now COVID is over, the doors have opened and people have charged out feeling like they missed out on so much. Our rate of doing has lifted exponentially. You would think we would have learned, but we are flat out busy. From your perspective, what is your advice on how we best look after ourselves so we can be at our best at work and in life now that we are back out in the open?
Chelsea Pottenger: It is a great question Blake and we see this a lot. I always say to people there are three reasons why CEOs, founders, entrepreneurs, corporate professionals, mums, dads and uni students burn out.
One. A lack of focus on themselves. They forget to invest in the vessel, the mental and physical health.
Two. Boundaries. People forget and do not really know how to say no in a kind way to protect themselves.
Three. As you mentioned, going into beast mode too often. Trying to tick off everything on the to do list at the detriment to their own health, wellbeing and family relationships.
The Gallup results for 2022 reported that nearly 50 per cent of Aussies face moderate stress every single day. The best thing to do is to get the pillars right. Sleep is the elixir of your life. Whole food nutrition. Daily movement. Some form of stress management tool. The unsung hero though is investing in mini retirements.
So often we chase big goals for financial security and commercially to reach retirement years. Then we get there and either we are completely burnt out from not looking after the vessel, or we do not even make it to that decade of living the retirement lifestyle. I always say to people, life is temporal. We need to enjoy the journey. So I recommend investing in mini retirements where you take regular breaks. The six week mark is a good interval. At the start of the year, flick open your calendar and book in your regular breaks. It does not need to be expensive. You do not need to fly off skiing. It could be a weekend camping trip.
What happens on that six week break is that two weeks before, you ask anyone going on a holiday how they sound. They sound chipper. It is the people who do not have a break coming up who are unbearable. They get a natural serotonin release in the anticipation of the holiday. Then they go on the break. They come back, maybe with some post holiday blues, but six weeks from there you have another break scheduled. So you get these natural serotonin releases throughout the year and great longevity. You both said you want to live forever. This is a great strategy.
When you are on these breaks, here is something wild. Go off tech during that period. Switch off from the world so you can really switch back on inside yourself. The people on the break with you get a very mindful version of you. I cannot tell you how recharging that is until you try it. When you come back from that break, you are fully there. The battery pack is recharged. So you can go into beast mode if you want to because you have these shorter sharper breaks coming up.
Nik: I have a question on this beast mode thing which I love. Asking for a friend, hypothetically. This person seems to always be in beast mode and you think you cannot get off the treadmill. You have caught yourself in your own rat race. What is your best strategy to start the process of saying no and decoupling yourself from your commitments? And one extension to that. If you talk about your history Chelsea, you had a big moment with postnatal depression. There are lots of people running around who do not have that big moment but are in beast mode 100 per cent of the time. What is your advice?
Chelsea Pottenger: Circling in on both questions. We have all got our own bag of busy. I love beast mode as part of my personality. It always has been. Triple type A high functioning. I am at uni, I have a company, I am a mum. We have all got our own bag of busy. But what I cannot have happen is a mental health relapse or to not enjoy the journey.
So setting really clear boundaries matters. Productivity is bizarre. People always think you have to sacrifice your sleep to get more done. You cannot take brain breaks every 90 minutes during the day because you have too much going on. If you do not do that, the brain, which is a muscle not a computer, just burns out. We become more unproductive. We multitask ourselves into inefficiency and make mistakes. We actually need these breaks and boundaries to be a mindful high performer. They help us get more juice out of the brain.
I have learned this in my own life because I was the yes woman. I was everyone’s yes person. If they needed someone at the party, Chelsea Pottenger was there. If they needed to pick my brains, I was there. That was at the detriment to my own mental health and wellbeing. I spoke to a couple of my business mentors who are legends in their own right. They said you really need to learn how to say no but in a really kind way. It has been the most empowering thing I have learned in the last couple of years. I am the no guru these days.
There is a formula. My mentors and I crafted it. I took it to university and asked one of my lecturers if the framework was psychologically sound. I set it up as an email template on my computer so it is also an efficiency hack. Here is the framework.
Step one. Thank them. When someone comes and asks you for something, whether it is being on a podcast, picking your brains, or helping with a client pitch, thank them. Start with “Hey Blake, thanks for thinking of me for this opportunity.” It is important to that person.
Step two. Let them know what is on your plate. If we just say we are busy, people have zero idea what busy means. Everyone’s bag of busy is different. List it out. “I would love to help you with this. However this is currently what I have on my plate. I am at university doing exams. I have two keynotes a day. I am interviewing people on podcasts. I am being a mum.” List the priorities so the person knows.
Step three. Reestablish business priorities if it is your boss. This is mainly for corporate professionals who are listening thinking “But it is my boss, I cannot say no to them.” Go back to them and say “If what you are asking from me is more important than what I currently have on my list, I am happy to take it on because it is better for the business goals. However please let me know what I need to delegate off and to whom.” They know to reshuffle the list with you.
Step four. Leave the door open. The last sentence is for people who get FOMO. They fear missing out, making a career limiting move, or that the person will never ask again. Say “Next time you do this, I would love to help you out, I would love to be there.” Now they know it is not a no forever. It is a no right now. People will not like you any less for saying no. They will respect that you have boundaries in place.
We just have to be kinder to ourselves. We cannot be everything to everyone. That framework, whether as an email template or in my phone notes, helps me decline social events too. Your friends understand. If you turn up to the next dinner or lunch, they get the best version of you with great energy. Saying no is one of the best things you can do to protect yourself, particularly for beast mode people. You need to get your own stuff done for the day. If you are doing everyone else’s stuff and working until midnight, it is not fair on you.
Blake: That is a great call out. I was listening to a podcast this morning and the guy was talking about JOMO, the joy of missing out. Saying no and then thinking how good is this, I have this time, my head is in the right space because I parked the other stuff.
Hey Chelsea, just for some practical advice. Nik is in beast mode. He wakes up. It is Monday morning, 5:30am. He is on his stationary bike in his garage. He has three kids, three lunches to make, three kids to get to school. He is his own boss but has 85 things to do this week. From your experience, what does that start to the day, the morning routine, look like to set ourselves up for success in life and work?
Chelsea Pottenger: Nik I feel your pain. Being pulled from pillar to post is a real thing. The beautiful thing about being a human being is that every 24 hours you get to start fresh. It is a fresh slate. What I see across the board globally is that 80 to 85 per cent of people pick up their phone first thing. There are some easy wins in the morning to set the tone for the day. I can promise you, for those listening, the way you set up those first few minutes sets the tone for your whole day.
Here are some practical things you can do as of tomorrow morning to get yourself in the right headspace, optimise your energy and give you good clarity and focus.
One. Change your alarm sound. If your alarm clock sounds like a jarring beep, change it straight away. You are jolting yourself from beautiful delta brain wave sleep straight into beta brain wave, which is very high stress.
Two. Put the phone down for the first eight to ten minutes. The science is clear. The brain is very vulnerable to whatever you consume off your phone in those first few minutes after waking. Imagine you wake up, see a news feed, there is a murder on it. It stimulates a huge amount of stress. The amygdala gets reactive. Cortisol pumps. Adrenal glands start releasing norepinephrine. The brain is very vulnerable and neuroplastic in the morning, so it starts firing neurons and forming connections for fear, worry, paranoia and stress. We have not even got out of bed yet. We have just scrolled.
Instead, put the phone down, lie there, and think about a few things you are grateful for. I always say five things. That gives a 30 second cycle of beautiful serotonin release, the happy chemical. Rather than sitting in cortisol and adrenaline, you start the day with that lens. I always say to people, own those first eight minutes. Set it up how you see fit. Do not let the world in to dictate how you start your day.
We are tiny ants on a tiny planet in a tiny galaxy. We are so small in this journey. We should wake up every morning in awe going “Oh my gosh I cannot believe I am alive today.”
Three. Brush your teeth with the opposite hand. It is a beautiful way to stimulate dexterity in the brain. It is a mindful task and it helps keep the brain young.
Four. Smash a huge glass of water before your first coffee. We sweat when we sleep. I know that sounds disgusting but we all do. We wake up dehydrated. The brain is about 75 per cent water. Before that first long black, chug a big glass of water to rehydrate the brain and the system.
Then the day kind of begins. If you can squeeze in movement in the morning, amazing. A hot shower followed by cold water is fantastic for the brain. I do not want to overwhelm the audience. If you can just focus tomorrow morning on not looking at your phone, brushing your teeth with the opposite hand and hydrating with a huge glass of water, that would be game changing for people’s morning routine.
Nik: I have a question for you. What if instead of hearing the beep beep beep as your alarm clock, you hear “Dad!”
Chelsea Pottenger: I remember those days. If you are hearing those beautiful kids waking you up, bring them on the journey. They jolt you out and here we are, up at 5am. What I used to do with Clara when she was two years old and walking into the room to tap me on the head was take her out to the chalkboard and start the gratitude practice with her. We had a blackboard in the kitchen. I would always say “Sweetie, what are you grateful for this morning?” She always said the same three things when she was that young. Nanny, Papa and Pippy the dog. I would say “Where is your mum?” I literally put myself on top of the list every morning.
Kids are sponges and they observe their parents. There is nothing sadder for me right now than seeing little ones develop negative self beliefs. Suicide is one of the biggest killers for children in Australia aged five to seventeen. That enrages me and makes me so sad on every level. As parents, as their guides through this life, we need to meditate with them and use tools and techniques to make their life smoother as well.
Blake: You had this moment in time. You flicked the switch. You said “I am going to go out and help people.” You have helped over a million people. We do not have a lot of time left, but when you consider the conversations you have had with those million people, if there were one or two things you could leave our listeners with to focus on, to help them with that shift from where they are today to wherever next, if there were just one or two things they could do in their life to get more out of it, what would they be?
Chelsea Pottenger: If you want to be a mindful high performer in your life, whether that is at home, university, school or in the corporate world, it starts the night before. As we get older, and for everyone really, sleep is the elixir of life. Consistent great sleep gets quite elusive for people. They feel like that is the one thing they can give up to perform higher, but the opposite is true. If we do not set ourselves up for a great night’s sleep, the next day our resilience is down, our cardiovascular fitness is down, we are not consolidating memories from the day before, and we just start behind.
Some simple tips to get quality rest.
One. Get off your screens half an hour before bed. That is non negotiable. We cannot deny it in the research anymore. Blue, red and yellow light switches off your melatonin. If you are watching a series on TV or looking at your phone in bed, your brain is in a half unwind period trying to get into deep sleep.
Two. No coffee after 2pm. Go hard in the morning. Cut it off at two because the half life of caffeine still circulates in the brain for the next six to eight hours.
Three. Be smart with alcohol. A lot of people use it as a crutch to get themselves off to sleep. One alcoholic drink followed by a water chaser, not too close to bed, your brain seems to be okay in terms of deep REM sleep. But two drinks and over, you are dusted. Your brain goes berserk. You get very deep REM in the first part of the night. You wake up with what is called rebound insomnia. You go to do a wee, come back to bed, stay in light REM, toss and turn and have lots of dreams.
From a mental health ambassador point of view, if you can have three to four alcohol free nights during the week, that is incredible for your brain. If you are going out for a nice dinner during the week and really want a glass of wine, go the highest quality you can afford. Save your big love on the weekend, free reign. If you are at a wedding or a dinner and step over the two drink mark, light yourself up, but know you are not going to sleep very well.
Blake: Go your hardest. Beast mode. I like it. Hey Chelsea, thank you so much for your time. Our listeners can pick up your amazing book The Mindful High Performer if they want to hear more about everything you have learned and passed on to over a million Australians. Where do they find you?
Chelsea Pottenger: Thanks so much for having me on today. eqminds.com is our website. We are also on Instagram at EQ Minds. We do mental health tips, tools and resources every single day. Come and join our community. We have close to 100,000 corporate professionals there, plus mums, dads and uni students. It is a really supportive community. If you need tips, tools and resources for performance and mental health, we would love to see you there.
Blake: Well thank you Chelsea. You have been amazing. Maybe next time we can get you back and hear the whole story. I reckon that is a long form two hour chat.
Chelsea Pottenger: I would love that. Sounds great. Thanks so much for having me today.
Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify… or just about anywhere!
Find out more about Chelsea and EQ Minds:
https://www.instagram.com/chelseapottengerofficial
Chelsea Pottenger interview trailer with The Do Landers
Episode Tags
Chelsea Pottenger, EQ Minds, The Mindful High Performer, mental health Australia, burnout prevention, postnatal depression recovery, mini retirements, saying no framework, morning routine, sleep optimisation, gratitude practice, mindfulness for executives, work life balance, high performance, Blake, Nik, The Do Landers podcast
topics:
- mental health
- burnout
- mindfulness
- high performance
- morning routine
- sleep
- postnatal depression
- saying no
- mini retirements keywords:
- Chelsea Pottenger
- EQ Minds
- The Mindful High Performer
- mental health Australia
- mindful high performance
- beating burnout
- postnatal depression recovery
- The Do Landers podcast
Chelsea Pottenger Interview transcript
Hey, Chelsea Pottinger, welcome to The Do Landers. Thanks for joining us. How are you?
I’m fantastic, Blake and Nick, thanks for having me today on the show.
Look, we always love to start by asking our guests. It’s a it’s a really broad question, but who are you and what do you do?
So probably the best place to start is kind of my story an how I ended up as the founder EQ minds. So I was working you know in a corporate high flying job. Like a lot of people out there. I was in a cycle of 12 hour days rise and grind alcohol after work, triple shock that whites you know pounding the pavement to exercise. Everything was really fast paced. And then in 2015 after trying for six years, I gave birth to our daughter Clara and was so elated.
